Donny Hubbard, Hubbard Clothing Company

How would you define the Hubbard's experience, like for people who haven't been in here?

Many reasons for guys to come to one place. You know, the clothing is obviously what pays the bills, but all this other stuff is- The

reason they stay

Coach Cal has been a great friend and customer, and he is the sweetest, nicest human being ever.

For people who don't know a lot about clothing, me, is there a difference between American and Italian clothing? Is it truly just appearance? What do you tell someone who like thinks they wanna do sales?

What really changed my business was specifically

Morning, Donnie. Thanks a bunch for sitting down with Nick and I. Uh, this one means a lot to me, just- Yeah? ... you know, I don't know. It just, our friendship building and just- Sure ... starting, uh, sitting up here in Rogers, and I still remember the first time my dad took me up

here- Yeah ... um, and met you, and I don't know what, what year it was, but, um, I th- when...

The, one of the first things that comes to my mind thinking of you, though, is just the experiences and community that you've built and just, like, love to build between different business owners and stakeholders in North Arkansas. So I was hoping before we kind of dive into everything- Yeah ... you could just, like, talk about that a little bit, how you've seen, like, just community of business owners build through your different business arms you've got here.

Yeah, man. Uh, you know, our, our business is all built on relationship, and, um, I th- I thrive on relationships, like with your dad, man. Yeah. I, I met your dad years ago, uh, at Ben's apartment, and we hit it off, and then that blossomed into one thing and then another. And, uh, usually those are the things that tend to lead to things within the community that we

all get passionate about, right?

And it all leads back to doing business, but I guess specifically, um, business within the community and, and relationships within the community. It becomes so organic, especially with guys like your dad, who- Mm ... like, I don't know anybody that doesn't like your dad, right? Yeah. And, um, he, he introduces me to people, I introduce him to people.

You know, he started his nonprofit, and I've been able to bring some people into that, and he's brought people into the store, and it's just an o- very organic and, uh, you know, relationship kind of thing, right?

Well, it feels like your business in general is, like, people y- you know... Yeah, people want you to be their guy or Hubbard's to be, like, their spot.

Yeah. Like, that's the- Yeah. You know, it's, it's a funny thing. When I first started selling clothes, uh, my mentor, a guy named Paul Rainwater, I was actually on the phone with him when I walked into the store today

just 'cause I was reminiscing about it was 30 y- years ago this month that he hired me.

Oh, wow.

But, uh, he, he was always very, uh, on point about, like, building relationships and, you know, making a connection with people in the community, and it w- it was just a... A- and he was so dynamic. And the... I, I remember thinking to myself I can do this and I can emulate this guy, but at the same time, I, I was very natural at growing that, right?

Mm.

And, uh, just had so much fun getting into comm- the community. Well, like I used to live in Fort Smith, and it was wild how many people I just randomly interacted with that ended up being one thing that led to another that led to another, you know?

Yeah. Man. Um, so you're from LA?

Yeah.

Originally.

Yep.

Um, when did you come to Arkansas?

What was that... How, how'd that happen?

So I grew up in, uh, a suburb of Los Angeles in Los Angeles County called Covina. Okay. And, uh, when I... I remember when I was 12 years old, my family started talking about moving to Arkansas, and we would come out here on vacation because my great-grandparents were still living and my grandparents would come out here, and my grandfather was one of 11 kids.

And so my, half of my family was here, aunts and uncles, and half was in LA.

Oh, wow.

They, they had made a, you know, like a group exodus in the '40s. And so when my grandfather retired, he, he wanted to be close to my grandparent, great-grandparents, and they lived in Van Buren. So we- ... we were a really close family, and everybody picked up and moved with my grandparents in 1989.

And, uh, consequently, that was when I met my mentor.

Okay.

Yeah.

And were you interested in, like, clothes before then? I mean, like, what was the-

No, I was a super poor kid. Um, like super, super

poor.

Mm.

And it really honestly changed our lives moving from LA to Northwest Ar- or not, Fort Smith, Arkansas. Uh, just 'cause, you know, I mean, it was so hard to live in LA.

Even back in the '80s it was super expensive-

Mm ...

uh, comparatively. And we sold a, literally a two-bedroom square, 900 square foot home. It was literally, like, bedroom, bedroom, bathroom, living room, kitchen, dining area. Like, it was a square house.

Mm.

And we sold that back in 1989 for s- a crazy amount, and came here and were able to pay cash for a 2,500 square foot home.

Yeah.

And- Yeah ... like, it just changed our lives, right? Mm. And we were still dirt poor, but it, it changed my parents' circumstances a lot. Um, they were very blue collar. My mom went to nursing school when I was in high school. You know- Wow ... she, she didn't start her career until in her 40s. And so for me, it was

very, uh, alien to, to- dress and whatever, and then I met this guy, Paul, and we went to church together, and I was enamored with him.

Like, I was like, th- this cat, it, like, dresses cool. He's super outgoing. Excuse me. Super outgoing, like, drove a nice car.

Yeah.

Um, public speaker, all that, and I was like, "I wanna be that guy." He was a little shorter than I was, so, but, but, uh... And then I remember realizing he wasn't rich. He, he's just... His family owned a clothing store.

He got to wear nice clothes, and he was involved with, like, the, the, the wealthy people in the community. Mm-hmm. And I was like, "I can do that."

Yeah, I can hang out with people.

Yeah. I may not be able to ever... Like, I was not academically inclined. I was not a great student. I, I knew college was gonna be tough for me, and so I was like, "If I can stand around in a store

and l- like, fake it- Mm

and look like I have money and dress like I have money, like, I'm, I'm cool with that."

Mm. '

Cause that's, in my poor mentality, was like- I

made it. That's, that's making it.

Yeah, yeah ... I, I can do

that. Yeah.

You know? And that's what attracted me so much to the clothing business. I tried to go to college. Again, not, not even remotely academically inclined.

I hated it, and I, uh, I dropped out my second semester because I, I knew immediately working at that store, like, this, this was... I was passionate about it, and I was good. I was the first person to ever outsell the family at that store of any employees that worked for them.

And the, the store, was it similar to what Hubbard's is today?

Or was it a little bit-

No, I mean, it, it was a men's store obviously, but Fort Smith, uh, th- there was no luxury, um, and I say luxury as in, like, elevated product- Mm ... that's made in Italy, whatever. Uh, but at the time, it was the... Like, I mean, the biggest brand in the store was Tommy Hilfiger.

Yeah.

Hart Schaffner and Marx Suits.

Joseph Abboud had just launched. Um- Yeah ... Nautica was a big deal.

Mm-hmm.

Cole Haan hadn't sold to Nike yet. Okay. Like, all that kind of stuff. So it was the nicest store in Fort Smith. I

mean, it's Arkansas too. I mean, like, like, kind of-

Yeah, yeah, yeah ...

old, old

Arkansas. In, in the '90s. Old, old Arkansas. You know?

Yeah.

And so- Yeah ... all of those things combined, it was, uh, it was a great time, great opportunity. I, I... And you know, the funny thing is, is- Even now, all of those relationships I made 30 years ago in Fort Smith, like, it, it- my life has just been a very weird... Like, I have so much in common with so many people from the lifestyle and the places that I've lived and- Mm-hmm

the things I've done and the people I've known-

Yeah ...

that I can always find a connection with somebody through something. Yeah. And, and it's, it's really uncanny, but I still, like, I still have some of those Fort Smith clients that have moved up here that still live there and-

Yeah ...

you know, whatever.

You're still

doing life

with.

Yeah.

The... So how long was that experience at that store? What, what did you, like, take with you kinda into the next, next season?

I was there for seven years, and, uh, during that time I got married, and I knew basically my last name wasn't Rainwater. It never was gonna be, and-

Mm-hmm

you know, I was always gonna, uh, you know, my, uh, my ambition early on was to own a clothing store, and-

Yeah ...

that wasn't gonna happen. I thought for a while it would, but wasn't gonna happen. So I went to my mentor, and I was like, "Hey, man, I'm... got married, buying a house, I need to make some more money," and-

Mm-hmm

he's like, "Yeah, man, my, my family's not gonna, they're not gonna jive with that." Yeah. And he, and he w- the, the reason I said what I said, and he was the one that said, "Your name's not Rainwater. It never will be." Yeah. I was like, "Got it." And so I got his blessing kinda under the table to go look for a job.

Mm-hmm.

Went to market with resumes, young, dumb kid, and

somebody passed my resume along to Bowman's in Little Rock, and they were looking for somebody. A- and kudos to, to Wayne who hired me. He recognized what was happening up here.

Mm-hmm.

And he wanted somebody in this market, and so, uh-

What year was that?

2002 Okay. Yeah, so Northwest Arkansas starting to grow-

Yeah ...

the, yeah.

And so he came up to the store. I, I had actually, when I got married and moved up here, my wife was in school at the university, uh, I'd opened a store for Rainwater's in Fayetteville on Joyce-

Mm-hmm ...

right next to CiCi's Pizza.

Okay.

Yeah, it was between Shogun and CiCi's.

Uh, but he came into that store and introduced himself, said he'd gotten my resume from a mutual sales vendor. Right. And, um, yeah, he was like, "Can't make any promises," and,

"We'd love to have somebody up here." And so a lot of people think that because I worked for Bowman's, I lived in Little Rock, and I never, I never lived a day in Little Rock.

Yeah.

I, I drove there a lot.

Yeah.

I, I committed to, uh... At that time, I was their outside sales guy, so I would drive to Little Rock every Friday morning for the Friday morning meeting.

Mm-hmm.

And then we'd do that. I'd load up all the stuff I needed for my appointments for the week and drive back, and then-

Wow

repeat next Friday. You know, ring up the stuff I sold.

And for young people listening, they're like, "An outside sales guy is in the clothing industry. Like, I can just order clothes from my phone." What did that actually look like back then? That- What is that, what is outside sales back then? Dude. Yeah.

So I was like, when I got hired to do that, I was like, "This is the greatest thing in the world.

I don't even have to go to work. I got no boss l- hoarding over me," you know?

Yeah.

And I was like, "I, I can do this job in my underwear."

Yeah.

You know?

So I figured out really fast that, uh, I was not motivated enough to be able to do that. Uh, so, you know, I, I was like, h- I, I... There was no playbook. I was like...

And this is, again, 2002, man. The, the, there were phone books back then.

Mm-hmm.

And I remember about three months in, I wasn't selling anything.

Mm.

Like, this dude was just paying me for really nothing.

Yeah.

And I was like, "Oh, my gosh, I gotta, I gotta pull my crap together and figure this out." I, I remember standing in the shower, and I've told this story a million times.

I, I, I remember the, the sensation of water running over my head, my hands on my face, going, "What have you done?" You know, because nobody's knocking on my door to buy clothes. Yeah. I'm literally slinging clothes out of the trunk of my car.

Yeah.

And, uh, I was like, "All right." pull together and make 50 phone calls today.

And that

was kind of my metric. I was like, 50 phone calls. And I went and opened a phone book, Yellow Pages, and I went to attorneys first, man.

Mm-hmm.

And I started going down the list, and I, I would call and, like, I, it was trial and error, man. What was gonna get me at least in the door?

Yep.

And, and then basically I just kind of figured out how to talk to people on the phone to where they wouldn't just hang up on me, and I would say, "Hey, listen, my name's Donnie.

I'm with Bowman's. I'm in your area, and I'd love to come by and meet whoever the attorney is, and just give him my card. I'm not trying to sell him anything today. Just-" Mm. And, you know, 50% of them say, "Yeah, come on by."

Yeah.

Whatever. And then half of them would be like, "No, I don't think we're, he'd be interested."

Yeah. But... And then, uh, you know, I'd show up, and I would specifically, on purpose, not bring any clothing or anything to try to sell them.

Mm.

I'd, I'd show up for whatever appointment I'd set, and they'd come out and be like, "Yeah, what's going on?" I said, "Man, I just wanted to introduce myself to you, give you my card, and

tell you what I'm doing, who I am."

He's... They'd, they'd... Sometimes they'd be like, "You got anything in the car?" I'm, "Nope. I j- I specifically only came here to meet you, and if that's something you wanna do, let's set up a proper appointment."

Wow.

And then... So there was a percentage, right? So it was 50 phone calls a day. I'd get, like, maybe five appointments.

Out of those five appointments, maybe I'd get one follow-up.

Yeah.

And then I was selling something one day a week. Mm. And then the more of those calls I made, the more appointments I made, the more... And sometimes I'd just stop into places and be like Who's, you know, I'd look at the wall and see who the attorneys were.

It was like, "Who's this guy?" Yeah. "Is he here?" Yeah. You know? It... Dude, I was, I was so hungry to sell stuff, and then it was one of those things of, again, just going back to the relationships. I, I ended up, um, through Rainwater's, I randomly had a relationship with Don Decker, and he used to be the head strength coach for the football team.

Uh-huh.

And he was...

He went to a church with a former youth pastor of mine, and so I got connected there.

Mm-hmm.

Don had me start coming to the university to sell him clothes, and then that hooked me up with Danny Nutt, and then Houston Nutt, and then Fitz Hill, and all- Mm-hmm ... the guys that were on that squad.

Yeah.

And they were all... They were so great. And then I was delivering some stuff to Tracy Rocker, that big old huge line- lineman's coach. Okay. I was delivering some stuff to Tracy, and I was walking through, and back then their offices were in the end of the Royals Athletics Complex- Okay. Yeah ... where, where it's now, like, you know, all the s- seating and- Yeah

suites and all that. And I'm walking through and I was like, "The golf coaches are in the football coaches' area?" You know, and I, I just said, "Head golf coach, Mike Ketcham." I stuck my head in and I was like... And he, he was actually in a meeting with the assistant golf coach, Grant, Grant Oswalt. Or no, John Sadie.

And, uh, I was like, "Hey, guys, just wanted to intro..." And they were like, "Come on." They were like the nicest guys in the world. And the

whole point is, uh, those two guys ended up shopping with me a- and became two of my best buddies.

Wow.

And I remember what, what really changed my business was specifically I was at lunch with Mike Ketcham at Pinnacle Country Club after we'd played a round of golf, and he, he whips out his flip phone.

He goes, "Donny, get a pen." And he starts going through his phone of all of his friends that were wealthy, and he's the head golf coach, right? So everybody wanted a piece of Mike.

Wow.

And he's a super dynamic guy. Played in team with John Daly back in the day. He said, "Call these people and tell them that Mike Ketcham told you to call- Wow

and that they would wanna buy something from you." I was like... And it literally, like, changed my business. Pe- Like, it opened so many doors, and then those people, because I was friends with Mike, then, then I'm friends with them. And then, you know, same thing with Eric Scott. Eric Scott, when I opened my first

store single-handedly, like, s- he was Lee Scott's son.

He was the CEO- Yeah ... of Walmart, you know? And they just brought people to me.

What do you say to someone who's trying to learn real sales today?

Man, uh, first of all, find a good mentor. You know, watching my, my original boss and mentor do his thing and- Seeing how he did that and how much he invested into me.

Like I, I remember him just handing me over some of the store's top clients because he saw a connection that I had with them, and I, I just remember being so appreciative of that and so like shocked that he would hand me the store's top client, you know? But it was because he loved me as, as a friend and- Mm-hmm

you know, I mean, I'd known him since I was 13, so I'm- Yeah ... working for him six years later. But the mentorship part of that is what helped me get the confidence to

continue on and, and be able to deal with those kind of people, right?

Is there any way to speed up the process?

I mean, uh, uh, they, there are just special people, I think, that have a gift of creating relationships and, um, I mean, really the only way to speed up the process is work your ass off.

Yeah.

I mean, there, there are some guys I've seen that are just hustlers and, you know, will outwork everybody in the room, and-

There's still real work.

There's still real work. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you, uh, unless you just have some magical talent to smooth talk people into anything, mm, those, those people are few and far between because normally people can see through the BS.

Yeah.

And they n- they know when something's r- real and genuine. And, you know, the funny thing about what I do, uh, I hear this all the time, and it's always, like, such a

affirmation thing, and it makes me... It just makes me happy whenever somebody... I, I'm telling them about a product. They're like, "Dude, you're so passionate about that.

I need to buy that. Like, I don't even know if I want it, but..." And, and like, when you have a passion like that about something, people know it's not fake, and they know, like, you've really- Yeah ... there's something special about that to you. And they wanna, they wanna get it because they wanna figure out what's special about it for them.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah. Man. So how long was the, the stint at Bauman's, and then from there you went to Louisville, right? What was the... What, what-

Yeah, so it's, it's, it's kind of a, a crazy... Again, the Louisville thing, so many connections out of that, uh, even. But, uh, yeah, crazy chain of events. Work- I, I sold clothes, like, did the outside sales thing for three years.

Mm-hmm.

And really grew it to where it was, like, I mean, for outside sales,

it was a significant number for the store, right? And Wayne was always happy with me, and- Mm ... we had a great relationship. Um, I know a lot of people in that store didn't have a great relationship with him 'cause he was a pretty hard guy.

Mm.

Former Marine, um, former alcoholic, you know- Yeah ... sober. Uh, so he, he, he had his way, and he's like, 6:00 AM, he's there. You know, "Don't be late. Don't..." You know. But... And he was always real rough on everybody in the store, but I never had to work in the store, so our relationship was- Almost more of a peer relationship-

Mm

in that I was the only guy in the history of the store that he ever took to go play golf when he would come up here, because he liked my relationship with the head golf coaches, right?

Mm.

And so he invested a lot in me, and, like, he, he used to sit me down and just talk about luxury, and he started taking me to New York to market.

Um, I mean, the dude really, really invested in me. Mm. And,

and I'm so grateful to have guys like Paul and him, and, uh, I'm grateful that I didn't work in the store and had such a good relationship with Wayne. But fast-forward three years after we did that, I, I went to him and I was like, "Hey, Wayne, um, th- this is so hard.

Like, I can't, I can't do this forever." So my grandmother had just passed away in Los Angeles, went to the funeral. My uncle sold her house, and from that my family got a little bit of j- like, a little bit of money.

Mm.

So my dad j- like, they were destitute, man. My, my, my parents did not have anything, and my dad got, like, 70 grand out of the house.

Mm. And he, he offered to give me $50,000 to help start my store. So I go to Wayne. I was like, "Hey, man, I got 50 grand." A- and I, I'm, I don't even... I'm so naive. Yeah. I was like, "I got 50 grand. Let's open a store." And Wayne was so impressed,

and he told me this to my face, that I was the first employee he'd ever had that was willing to put his own money into something.

Mm. And so he's like, "Let's do it. I'll, I'll provide the inventory," and like- Wow ... "Let's find a spot." And randomly I was selling clothes to Collins Haynes back then, and he offered to be the guy to bring Bowman's to Northwest Arkansas, so we did that, and I had a 900-square-foot store in a weird office building up on Horse Barn Road.

And but the whole point is, is we, we opened a brick and mortar on such a shoestring budget at a time when things were starting to take off here, and then, man, right out the gate we started doing pretty well. I mean, I think we did half a million dollars our first year, which back then- Mm ... and with 900 square feet and one guy.

Yeah, you're making money.

Yeah, it was great. Yeah. It was great. And then- Stayed in that space for a while, and then 2008 hit, right?

When, when the economy crashed in 2008, we were in this weird bubble of we were, we were a little bit insulated from what was happening because we're the home of the low price leader, right?

Like Walmart. Mm-hmm. Walmart's killing it during 2008. So I was still selling clothes and my business was still growing. Little Rock was very different. Wayne had a $3 million store, so you take a 20% hit on $3 million, it's a significant chunk of change.

Yeah.

So he comes to me in 2008, he said, "Man, listen, um, I need the cash, and if you're ever gonna buy the store, now would be the best time to do it.

It'll be the best price you ever get." And so I started floating it out to a couple of my clients that were good clients, and two of them bit. Um, I won't say their names. They're prominent people in the community. But two of them were like, "Yeah, we'll, we'll help you out." And they were willing to give me what they were willing to lose, right?

Yeah. And then, uh, I was like, "Okay, great."

And then We started kind of going down that road of how does this look to buy Wayne out, and I was going back and forth with him. And then in the, the course of that, one of them had the opportunity to invest in a bank, and he calls me up. He's like, "Hey, man, I think I'm, uh, I'm gonna step out because I got this opportunity at this bank," and blah, blah, blah.

So it left the other one. The other one was still w- willing to do it. And then one day, uh, right over here where Tropical Smoothie is, they, they were opening a Silver Joe's Coffee Company. And this client of mine, who I'd known forever in Fort Smith because my mom was his family nurse- Mm-hmm ... for 25 years.

Oh, wow.

Uh, I'd kinda kept up with him. He'd bought clothes with me and whatever. He owned Silver Joe's, and he was part of Rock- he's founder of Rockfish Interactive.

Mm.

And, uh, his name's Steve Clark, and I see him at the opening 'cause I wanted to support him. And I was like, "Hey, man, let's put some Silver Joe's in the store."

And, like, he's like, "Yeah, I'll come over and let's talk." So he comes over, and he's looking... He's

like... At, at the time, I'd moved over here into this shopping center. I was in the Intrust Bank space. Mm. And he, uh, he's like, "What do you wanna do with this place?" I was like, "Uh, I don't know. We'll put a little coffee service station."

He goes, "No, no, no. I... Coffee's fine. What do you wanna do with this place?" I said, "Well, I'm actually in the process of buying it." I said, "I've got an investor already lined up," and this and that. He goes, "I'm interested." I was like, "What?" You know? Yeah. I mean, he was just very matter of fact. "Yeah, I'll do it."

Yeah.

And I was like... And I knew him, and I... From being a client from Fort Smith. Yeah. My mom, all that. And I was like, "Okay." And he goes, "You know, I own Rockfish Interactive. We can help you digitally. We can put a lot into this." So I had breakfast with the other guy, uh, that, that week, and I said, "Hey, man, just wanted to run this by you.

Like, this, this other, other friend of mine, client, he wants to do this. He'd be willing to..." And, and he just looks at me. He goes, "Donnie

I like you a lot, and you're my friend, and I'll always shop with you. I'm only willing to give you what I'm willing to lose.

Yeah.

And I'm not gonna help you." He said, "If this guy's willing to help you, do that, and then I will not be offended, because I'm only doing it 'cause you're my friend."

Mm.

I was like, "Okay." And so it w- it was a nice, easy, like, conversation and exit. Yeah. And I went back to Steve, and I was like, "You know what? Let's do this." And, and I told him... A- and it was funny, because back then, even back then, that was 2000- it was 2009 when we got the transaction done, but I had told him when he came in about the coffee service thing in 2008, uh, I was like...

He goes, "What do you wanna do?" And I was like, "Man, I'd love to have a barber shop over here, and then have the little lounge in the back." And that, that was my vision back then- Mm ... was to have a space that was many reasons for guys to come to one place, not ju- You know, the clothing is obviously what pays the bills, but all

this other stuff is what-

The reason they stay.

Yeah, it's the reason they stay. Yeah. And it's the reason they bring other people-

Mm ...

to come hang out, and the longer you can keep somebody, it's not about selling them more clothes. The longer you can keep somebody, the better relationship you can- Yeah ... build with them, right? Mm-hmm. And if you can be the guy that provides them with a cool spot to get their hair cut and come back and have a bourbon or something, you know, like, that's just that much more time you get to spend with people when creating relationships.

Yeah, you're in their s- I mean, both, like, both ways. It's like you're in their circle, they're in yours, and it's like- Yep,

yep ...

it's just... Yes.

And so did that. We, we, uh, we operated for several years as Bowman's. Uh, when I bought Wayne out of that store, we licensed the name. And then Wayne, knowing what was happening up here, I think he regretted having to sell the store, like, he...

'cause this was the biggest opportunity.

Yeah.

And,

um- It, it just got a little weird. And, and, uh, I, I think the thing that really pushed that over the edge was we had an agreement about, like, what brands we could carry, and there was a list, and, you know, had to be stuff that represented Bowman's well and whatever.

And one of the brands was on the list. It was a brand back in the day called Corneliani. Luxury brand. We'd carried it before. We, we'd always had it. They ended up stopping carrying it, and, uh, to get to the point, I, I picked it up and had it in the store. And what happened was a client came up for a football game from Little Rock, and it still said Bowman's, right?

It was still, like... People-- The perception was that Wayne had two stores.

Yeah.

Nobody knew that I had purchased this one- Purchased this one, yeah ... away from him. And they came in, and I had this beautiful, like, Corneliani outerwear piece that they were pretty well known for, and it was, like, their, their thing.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, it-- so much so

that if anybody else in the industry did it, you know, it's like, "Ah, it's the Corneliani ID jacket," you know? Yeah. Everybody knew what it was. And so this client takes a picture of it, and then he leaves, and he goes back to Little Rock. And a couple days later, I get this smoking phone call, like he is hot.

He's like, "What are you doing carrying product down there? I got clients coming in here asking for it, and we don't have it." And I was like, "Oh, man. No, it's on the list, dude. It's, it's not like-"

Yeah. "...

I'm not carrying Tommy Bahama here."

Yeah.

Like, you know, something that would be a black eye for their store.

Yeah.

Like, this is luxury. It's Italian. Like, it's on the list. Mm-hmm. And so we just kinda got sideways on a couple things like that because his whole thing was he liked the perception that he had two stores, and then when somebody came in and saw something they could get from me that they couldn't get from him, it, it didn't jive well.

Makes sense.

And, uh, he just ended up, ended up not wanting to continue on with the licensing

relationship. Mm-hmm. So we were fine with that 'cause we were paying on a percentage of sales. Yeah. And we're just like, "Okay, great." Right. "Sign the contract. We'll, we'll jump out." And we changed the name to The Independent at that point.

And, uh, it was a little bit of a... You know, it was, it was like poking him in the eye. I'm independent of you now. That's why I changed the name to The Independent. And-- No, seriously.

Where was the location? Was that downtown Fayetteville at the time?

No. Well, so they, it, it was always right here across from Blakeman.

Okay. In fact, Blakeman's is using my old store as their, like, jewelry design and- Oh, yeah ... all that stuff over there. It was there. And then I, I pitched Steve and his guys on doing a denim shop, and then they, they latched onto that and they actually created a separate partnership. I wasn't super involved in the denim shop downtown Fayetteville, but it was of the same name 'cause Steve was owner of both.

Mm-hmm.

With, with me in this one and with some other guys in the other one. Uh, a-

and so they... Steve ended up selling Rockfish during that time, and, uh, there was another guy involved, and, uh, you know, it was just, it was a weird time for me. My, my son was diagnosed with autism during that-

Mm ...

time, and you go through this...

I talk about this a lot with people that are, are dealing with going through some clinical thing like that. When you, when you have a child that's diagnosed with a life-altering diagnosis, right, like autism, you, you don't know what that looks like long term. But what it does, it It's, it's a clinical thing that you go through.

It's the death of the child that you thought you were gonna have.

Yeah.

Right? And so, uh, geez. Yeah, you, you, you realize you're not gonna have the kid that's gonna play baseball, or he's gonna- not gonna be a ladies' man. He's not gonna take over your

store, right? And so you go through this thing that, like, it's literally like the death of a child, and now you've got this other kid that's cr- dude, he's, he's like the happiest f- like, you know, you get over that.

Mm.

But at the time, it's a real mind job. It's a real mind job. And so I was going through all of that, and there was some, like, just partnership issues. We had a horrible bookkeeper that was just... I, I don't know what it is about some bookkeepers. We went through two terrible bookkeepers that just... They were psychopaths, and they, they...

Because they handle the money, they feel like they have some control over the business, and it was just weird. The second one was... I mean, she was the reason we parted ways, right?

Mm.

And, uh, just really, there was so much stress in, in that situation, and my son. And I was fairly young. This is, you know, 11 years ago.

Ver- fairly young in this industry to be carrying the brands that I was carrying. And, uh,

you know, I had every luxury brand you could imagine, and, you know, all the ones that I have now, and then I'd done stuff with other ones that were really hard to get. And, um, I was-- I, I had created a little bit of a name for myself among the other luxury stores in the country.

So there was one in Louisville. Mm. Rhodes. They, they... The owner of that store and I became super good friends, and he was just begging me to come work for him. And through all of that, I was like, "You know what?" Got this diagnosis on my son. There's a lot of strife with the situation with the store. We had opened a Little Rock store as well.

Oh, wow.

And so that was, it was horrible, and that really, really, really ruined my relationship with Wayne because we did that with a couple of guys from Bowman's-

Mm. ...

and it was a disaster. It was a disaster. Uh, and it was every- all the success we were having here was paying for that store.

Mm.

And, um, it was just a lot

of really not great vibes even though- Mm-hmm

things were going good here in Rogers.

Yeah.

And so this guy's offering me a job, and I'm like, "You know what? Maybe a bigger city will be better for my little boy," 'cause we, we lived here our whole adult lives. Yeah. We didn't know. So we thought, "Let's do it. Let, let's, let's jump on board." There was a little bit of an offer of, like, on the back end, no succession plan for the store in Louisville.

Um, the, you know, that was kind of on the table. Mm-hmm. Never in writing.

Yeah.

Get it in- Yeah, right ... get it in writing. Um, yeah, so we, we, we jumped on it, and, um, we sold our house here. We moved to Louisville, Kentucky, and, uh, it was... It's a great, great town. Um, I, I was hired to be the manager of that store, but, uh, me and the owner were the only ones that knew that.

Yeah.

So- Wow ... every

employee there was like, "Oh, he's the new guy," you know? And I was like, "Howard, what's happening?"

Jeez.

Like, "I'm not the new guy." He goes, "We'll work, we'll work you into that." And yeah, it ju- again, it was just one of those things that was like, wow, okay, like, not what I expected, but- Yeah ... I can, I can work with this.

And then just a few things here and there that was just, you know, it was, it was different going back to work for somebody after owning my own thing for so long and- Mm ... controlling my own situation and destiny. Yep. And then, uh, then one December morning, my wife walked in, and she very calmly and quietly put a positive pregnancy test on the bathroom counter when I was getting out of the shower, and I was like Oh, no.

'Cause after autism, you, it, it's, it's not right, and it is what it is, but it's just so hard that, um, after you get a diagnosis like that, you're kinda like, "Now we're done."

Yeah.

And then there's all the

anxiety of, "Oh, my God, what if it's a boy?" Mm. 'Cause then the percentages are greater.

Yeah.

Right? And then February 14th we find out it's a boy.

Mm. And then it was about February when I went to my boss and I was like, "We're out, dude. We can't do baby autism, got an older daughter. We can't do it here without support."

Mm-hmm.

So I, uh... And he, he just, he... It, it's funny 'cause he looked at me, he goes, "I can't believe it took you this long." 'Cause I told him in December we were having a baby.

Yeah.

And in February I was like, "Dude, I'm out. I, I gotta go. Like, I don't... I, I gotta, I gotta go home."

Yeah.

And meanwhile, I'm opening up every fricking Forbes article and every social media post, "Northwest Arkansas, greatest place in the world. Northwest Arkansas, number one place to live. Northwest Arkansas, growing..."

I was like, "What is hap- Yeah ... We just moved" and, like, it explodes. Blew up

right then.

Right. Yeah. Explodes. And I'm like, "This is dumb." And so

fortunately for us, we, we were able to figure that out, and thank God for Andrew because we would've not moved back when we did- Mm ... and maybe not at all- Yeah ... if, if not for him.

And so when I had left The Independent and, and left that situation, we closed it, it wasn't on the best of terms with- Mm ... with my partnership. And so, but I didn't wanna come back and do it, like, behind closed doors and secretively and-

Yeah ...

anything like that, so I, I text my partner, my former partner, and I was like, "Steve, listen, dude.

I'm, I'm coming back, and I'm having a baby. I don't know if you heard, but, like-" I'm, I'm gonna be doing what I do, and I just don't wanna... 'Cause he still had The Independent on in- Yeah ... Fayetteville at that time. It was a denim shop. It wasn't this.

Yeah.

And, uh, man, this dude, like,

it, it was just almost divinely kind.

He, he just immediately responded. He goes, "Donnie, the only thing I would request is if you're coming back is you let me help you do it." And I was like, "This guy's glutton for punishment." So, so he, man, he, he just every step of the way, he was there for me.

Wow.

And we, we got together and we started planning what is this gonna look like, and I pitched him on all this stuff, and he's like, "I love it.

Let's do it."

Did you have any capital at that point? Did you, did you have capital when you exited Northwest Arkansas and moved to Louisville? Like, what were you coming back with?

Like- I was coming back with the money I had out of my house, man. Okay. And I, I was like, "I guess I'll just do the road thing again until I can build this back up."

And, you know, I was very, very fortunate to have had a guy like Steve who even though we were a little sideways, he still believed in what

I could do, and he knew my capabilities and- Mm ... my relationships with... You know, I talk about relationships with clients all the time because, I mean, those, those people are what we see every day.

But my relationships with vendors, I mean, I've been doing this for 30 years.

Yeah.

And I've known a lot of these people for two-thirds of that. Yeah. My very best fr- My son, Andrew, he, he's named after my very best friend in the industry, a guy named Andrew Weisbrodt, who I've known for 29 years. Mm. He's, he was my Aboud rep when I was at Rainwater's, you know?

And we, that dude and I talk like girls almost every day. But yeah, I had nothing. I, I... So without Steve, it would've been a very long road of building it back up and, you know, very fortunate in that.

So talk about when you, you came back and building it into, like, the f- the force that it is now. Like, what, how did, how, how, when did it really f-

I mean, feels like the brand is just, is so, so

strong.

Yeah, dude. And- Well, coming back, Steve and I were talking about what to name it, 'cause I liked The Independent because it was ambiguous, and it wasn't really tied to me. It was... You know, when I came up with that, like I said, it was kind of a little poke in the eye.

Yeah.

But coming back after being gone for a year and a half, Steve goes, "Listen, dude, I think we gotta let everybody know exactly who and what."

Yeah.

And I was like, "I think you're right." So that's when we decided to call it Hubbard Clothing Company, and, you know, and I always thought it was a little bit pretentious to put your name on it and, you know, whatever. But turns out everybody loved it. Every- everybody understood exactly where I was coming from.

And at that point, we, you know, we started really focusing on the brands, the, the vibe of the store, the, the whole feel of, like, how do we

get people to buy into what we're doing here other than just selling clothes and the barbershop? The-- It was funny, when we were building out the lockers for bourbon here, uh, I envisioned just, like, you know, your dad come in, like, shop a lot.

"Hey, Ben, just stick a couple bottles in here, and then you can use this to..." And then everybody that came in during construction was like, "How much is the locker gonna be?" I was like, "Wait a minute. We can charge for this?" Yeah. So my first year, after about five people asked me what the price was, and I immediately was like, "Oh, we haven't figured that out yet," you know?

Yeah. Like, I was like, "Pfft, this is wild." So I divided the number of lockers by the amount of rent we pay for the year-

Mm. -

and just made that the locker price. So within two months, we paid our rent for the year, made the space free. That's awesome. 'Cause in two months, we were completely sold out on the lockers.

Mm. And so I was like, "Well, that just, that, that wall right

there just paid the rent for the year, so everything else we do now is just off to the races."

Mm.

And I remember Steve just being like, "Dude, that was genius." And it was not even my id- the lockers were my idea, but not, not to... I didn't- Yeah, charge for 'em

I didn't think we would monetize that. But, uh, y- yeah, man, like, just being able to bring people in and do all the other things and present clothing in a way that's not very conventional in, in usual luxury markets, um-

How would you define the Hubbard's experience, like, for people who haven't been in here?

Well, first of all, I, I have two of the, the very best guys that I've ever worked with, like, in, in my entire career. They're, they're both so kind and so knowledgeable and so bought into everything we're doing, and I include them in so much stuff. Um, I think the initial experience is, is o- overwhelmingly kindness and attention,

and nobody here is like...

You know, you hear all the, the horror stories about, you know, pretty woman, big mistake, you know- Mm-hmm ... ignoring people. I mean, we've all been guilty of it, but we, we try to be over the top with relationship building even when it looks like somebody who couldn't afford a pair of socks in here, you know?

Mm-hmm. And, um, yeah, and sometimes they can't, and

that's fine.

Like- Yeah ... we want them to leave and go tell everybody, "I couldn't afford anything either, but those are the nicest dudes I, I've ever met in my life." You know? Mm-hmm. We give everybody tours to the back, and I think it's a little, you know, es- especially when it's a, a client who is shopping with us and they start discovering all the little unique things about the store, and they see the portraits on the ceilings.

It, it always takes people 10 minutes to, like, "Oh, I didn't even realize there's cool stuff on the ceilings up there." Mm-hmm. And they come back here, and they see this wall, and this is dramatic. This is like... People used to just constantly

post that on social media. And then the pool table and the lockers, and what's this room for?

And, you know, we've really capitalized on that. You know, we had, we had a store in Fayetteville that we tried the denim store thing again in 2019, and then, um, COVID hit, and we had to close that, and we were only open for about eight months when we closed it. And, uh, I'm looking at that store down there, and it, it was, it was real cool the way it was built, and I was like This would be a very cool speakeasy.

We should make this the second location for the club. Scrap the idea of doing a store and inventory- Mm-hmm ... and employees. Just-

Yeah ...

let's put a, you know, every kid loves James Bond thumbprint lock. So put a thumbprint lock on the door, and we, we just shifted that into the second location of this. And for us, you know, it doesn't make a ton of money.

It doesn't lose any money. But it's, it's always a unique thing in the

conversation, right?

Yeah.

Like, it says Hubbard Clothing Company on the outside, which is a great advertisement to have in Fayetteville too, but it... What is it? Y- you know, and we tell people it's a speakeasy, and it's our membership-only club, and it's the second location for this.

And-

Mm-hmm ...

as you know, we do a lot of cool events down there, and- Oh, yeah ... I think all of that just basically ties community together, which gives us an opportunity at the end of the day to sell. Yeah. Right? So the experience coming in here is: What are all the arms of experience for Hubbard Clothing Company?

Mm-hmm.

Right? Like, had the fishing club for a long time. Just recently actually sold it. Um, we had an offer we couldn't refuse, but- Mm ... we, we had the Tailwater Club, and that was just another arm of something that I'm passionate about that we brought in to be a part of what we're doing here that- Yeah

created another thing to talk about and another thing to, that we can all, like-

Relate to, right? Anybody that's into fly fishing, oh, let me tell you all about this. The shotguns, like, we started bringing in some super high-end Italian shotguns, Caesar Guerini. It, it's so funny when somebody comes back here and is like, "Oh, what is that?"

You know?

Yeah.

And, you know, selling a few of those here and there, and it's not a huge part of our business by any means. It's just another thing like cigars, you know? We, we probably give more cigars away than we- we've ever sold.

Yeah.

But we have a little patio out, a patio out back, and, you know, it's, again, just another reason to connect with clients and spend more time with them.

You know?

Talk about the progression of all those. Like, so this store opened, this store right here that we're sitting in- Yep ... opened when?

Uh, March of 2018.

2018, okay.

Yeah.

And then the downtown Fayetteville, sounds like that was 19-ish. Y'all tried- Yeah ... to launch something, didn't work, transitioned it into a club in 2019?

Yeah, COVID made that one not work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, unfortunately.

I think it would've been good. I don't think it would've ever been what this is, but yeah, transitioned that into the, the speakeasy. Um, and, and at the time, we, we had bought out the other partners of The Independent as well, so we actually had a location up in, in Bentonville too.

Okay.

Right, right by Onyx, and, uh, that was okay. It w- it was, it was going okay. Um, and I think we could've gotten it there, but again, we, we closed both... We, we were just circling the wagons around the, the one store that was, like, the driving force, which was this, this location, and so we closed Bentonville almost immediately and then quickly followed with Fayetteville.

But being able to keep that was-

Good ...

key.

Yeah, and it's such a cool space. Was the, uh, is the vision for that to grow memberships, or is it kind of just like an... I mean, how, how do you view that as a, as its own business? I know, I know how you view it collectively, but-

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So as its own

business, the, uh, we've, we've grown very quietly.

We don't, we don't, uh, beg people to be members. We, we don't, we don't want the people that, um, don't buy into it and understand how to use it and treat it. Had, had a couple of those in the past, and n- we would rather people we know and, you know, that we understand will take care of it and so on and so forth.

Um, we're, we're doing a lot of event space rentals out of there now. Um, got a couple of things coming up soon that, uh, you know, that's, that's monetization of that space. We do, uh, we just for lack of a better term, signed a contract with a comedian in town who's now facilitating monthly comedy nights for us, and we just had our first one with him a couple nights ago, and it was off the charts.

Like, it was a packed house, and

we made money on that. Like, you know, when, when we do events, big jazz nights and comedy nights, stuff like that, it's always been like, "Eh, maybe we'll make a little bit." This time we actually did make some money on it. Yeah. And yeah, I think it was through his promotion of that event because of the agreement that we have.

And I think those things are gonna be a lot better and a lot more important. Um, so yeah, that thing's kinda taken off. My guy Caleb that works for me, I, I... Part of his position here at the store is obviously clothing is always first and foremost, but he's the director of the H Clubs. Like, all rentals, all anything actionable at the H Club goes through him.

Mm-hmm.

So he, he's my guy on that. Mm-hmm. That's cool. He's been with me forever, too. I hired him when he was 19.

He's great.

He's the

best. He's awesome. Talk about, like, the g- getting, getting the inventory, like, the, what you can expect, like, from the qu- the quality that

you sell here, uh, versus, you know, I mean, like, once again, like, if people have not been in here before, what can they ex- expect that's different than anywhere else, maybe regionally?

Yeah. Listen, we, we, we do carry a lot of brands that a lot of luxury stores around the country and around the world have. Um, so When you come in here, you know, first of all, it doesn't look like other luxury stores, right? We had Chris Goddard from Goddard Design Group design the space, and it's over-the-top cool, very menzy, but it has a whimsical vibe to it, right?

Mm. We always call it Willy Wonka Land back here in this space.

Yeah.

Um, but the brands that we carry, you, you-- as a luxury store, you gotta have some things that set the tone, right? Yeah. So if you're moving here from a bigger market and you see a brand like Canali, you instantaneously know what kind of store this is and what, what to expect, right?

Mm-hmm. 'Cause that's luxury. You know, you're talking a couple thousand dollar suit, which is nothing to

shake a stick at, right?

Mm.

Um, and then we go down from there, and we go way up from there. We go all the way up to Kiton, which is arguably the finest garment in the world. Very, very, very expensive. Um, the peop- It's funny.

Every, every time somebody comes in, we're, we're showing them things in the store, if they say, "Oh, you have Kiton," then we're like, "Oh, you know, you know what Kiton is." You know? Like, "Huh, let me introduce you," you know? Yeah. But, um, yeah, having special things like that that people understand. But we also... I've, I've spent so much time going to Italy and searching out cool little vendors that nobody's ever heard of because they're not big enough to have representation in the US, they only show in Italy, or getting introduced to somebody who does some production for some other brand.

There, there's this, you know, just trying to figure out and find things that make your store

special.

Mm.

And those are the things that I get real passionate about, and like this little brand that I found in Arezzo or in... You know, there's a lot of brands in Naples that are very big, but there's also a lot of really cool little brands that nobody's ever heard of in Naples.

Um, and we spend a lot of time doing that kind of stuff, and we, we've-- I've been traveling to Italy for 15 years now. Mm-hmm. In the beginning, it was like, I just wanted to 'cause I was like, uh-

Yeah ...

that's cool. Um, but then I realized pretty quickly that it not only elevated the perception with our clientele, but it also elevated the perception with the vendors that here I am showing up every time.

Yeah.

Right? And, and putting the effort into going to Italy and being at the shows and, you know, finding cool things that aren't... You know, the easy thing is to go to New York or Chicago to the shows there, do your thing, buy the same thing that's in everybody's stores, and you have

the, you know, a carbon copy.

And I'm not, I'm not dogging the other luxury stores around the country. I'm just saying it's the easier thing to do, and it's very profitable to do it that way. Mm-hmm. Um, I just, I have the energy, I have the, the willingness and the time, and fortun- fortunately, thank God, I've got the money to be able to do that.

And we just made that a part of our game plan for so long that, um, it, it's been very, very beneficial. Wow. And the big brands we do business with, we, we've started just going to Italy and buying them there.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, you know, just finding, like I said, all the little cool things, like the shoes I'm wearing, Paolo Scafora.

Found that while I was in Italy, and it's, it's a next level, you know, all the way up to bespoke, like legitimate bespoke shoemaking. Mm-hmm. So things like that, um, you know, finding our, our tie vendor that

makes our private label ties. You know, ties are not a big business, so, anymore, and so finding something that has, you know, a uniqueness to it and going to Como, where it's silk capital of Italy, and you actually go up to Lake Como and go to the factory where they produce the, the weave the silk, and then produce the ties and-

Wow

you know, it's cool. It, it, it's, it's so much of a passion project, and then getting into the relationship part of that, it's so much fun.

Yeah, you get to, like, be creative and, like, under- Like, I mean-

Yeah ...

I feel the passion. Like, when I walk in here and, and you're telling me about something, and you, you made a comment earlier about, like, it's so easy to get for the client to wanna buy something when there's genuine passion behind the person who's selling it- Right

'cause they, 'cause they l- they would actually love it. And even if you can't, you know, buy it right now, maybe you buy it later or, or, or you tell somebody about it, "Hey, this is the g- Right ... you know, this was the coolest thing."

Yeah. You know? And sometimes it's not even, it's not even

about the actual product.

When the product is great, it's about the people behind the product.

Mm-hmm.

And you get super passionate about the relationship that you've built with this person who their family owns the brand, and they're, they're passionate about it because it's, it's built off of what their family has built in their home and the streets of, you know, their community.

And I- Mm ... I've, I've just got a couple of really, really, really great friends, one particularly is Renato Baldessari. His, his father started the brand, Maurizio Baldessari. That's his father. Mm. And Renato is now, like, the CEO of the company, and he and I hit it off so far long ago, um, when he was in another showroom just selling a little bit of tailored clothing.

And, uh, I just fell in love with the guy, and he was the first person to invite me to Italy. And so our relationship is what made me passionate about that brand and watching it grow into what it has. Mm. And now it's a, now it's a

legit brand and second biggest vendor in our store.

Wow.

Um, and, and it's a very important brand for a lot of luxury stores, but- Yeah

um, still, my, my, my passion for that brand is my relationship with Renato.

Yeah.

You know, he's invited me to stay at his home, and, uh, dinners in Italy. Every single time I'm there, I have dinner with him, and

it's cool. That's amazing. Ta- talk about, um, for people who don't know a lot about clothing, me- Uh-huh

I would be one of them, uh, I would be one of them, what is, what is... Is there a difference between American and Italian clothing? And obviously, the appearance is, is part of it. Sure, sure. But, like, is there a, um- tangible the way it's made? Is it nicer? Does it last longer? Some, sometimes yes Or is it, is it really just appearance?

Like

what- No, none of those. So, so Italians are, are obviously very well known for their dedication

and obsession with quality, with hand production, whether, whether you're talking about, you know, I just bought an Italian espresso machine that's very expensive and it's handmade, right? Mm. And think about cars.

Ferrari. Mm. Italians are obsessed with Ferrari and how it's made and what the passion that goes into it, and I think the same thing can be reflected... In fact, we use the analogy of automobiles all the time with clothing when guys don't understand what they're, what they're looking at. Why is that jacket $10,000 from Kiton?

And I'm like, "Let me relate this to something you, you can understand So we carry Mercedes, we carry Porsche, and we carry Ferrari. They all do the same thing. A suit is a suit is a suit, right? They all do the same

thing. The cars get you from point A to point B, and they all have a radio and a push-button start, right?

Mm-hmm. The Mercedes is very nice. And I say, I say Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari because we don't get down into the Chevrolets, and p- men understand this analogy, right? Yeah. It's hilarious. And so I'm like, "This jacket, this is a Mercedes. It's very, very nice. It's made out of unbelievable fabric. It's made in Europe, maybe in, you know, Turkey, Romania, whatever, but it's still European production.

And, and, you know, maybe, maybe it's made in Italy." But Mercedes is made a particular way. It's, um, automobile is made on an assembly line, a lot of robotics involved. Same thing as clothing, right? Mm-hmm. There's certain materials that are used. This is, you know, mass-produced engine, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then there's Porsche, and that gets a different level of clientele, and there's guys that are obsessed with Porsche

911 GTS. You know, like- Mm-hmm ... that's, that's a legit car, and that's gonna... It looks a little faster. And the difference in a Mercedes, let's say S-Class and Porsche 911 GTS, it drives different.

Mm-hmm.

Makes you feel different when you get in that car, makes other p- other people perceive you differently.

Mm-hmm.

Right? And then there's Ferrari. Mm. That's a whole 'nother level, right? You get in that car, everybody knows there's something special about this dude, or they think there is, and that's the perception.

And this is a handmade automobile. This is... The engine's been produced and turned and set in by hand.

Yeah.

The leather's been stitched by hand on the steering wheel and all. It's another level, and that's what Kiton is, right? And so guys are... They... It's so funny watching them whenever I use those analogies.

They're like, "Yeah, I get it. Yeah." Mm. "Let me try the, let me try the Ferrari on." You know, "This will be my aspirational

piece." But back to your point, there, there tends to be a little bit different in- quality and, and the passion that is produ- like touring some of these factories, it's wild, man, just seeing these people that are, uh, it's almost becoming a lost art to have hand tailoring.

And Italians have figured out, like, small little things like an offset armhole on a shirt, right? So w- if you look at the, the seam of almost any shirt produced in America, like under the armhole, it will be one straight line from here on the seam all the way down to the, the hip. On a Neapolitan specifically shirt, they realize that the way the human body is situated and the way your arm moves, that to offset that armhole, in other words, on the sleeve where it comes down, you'll see where

the chest of the garment is, is, is not lined up, right?

So they're offset because that's the natural movement of the arm from the chest, right? Yeah. And so it just creates a more comfortable and more pleasing to the eye. I know it's a little bit higher. Uh, there's, there's a lot of reasons that the Italians do what they do, but they do do it better, and they do do it a little m- more beautifully, which is why, for example, uh, Ralph Lauren, we started carrying Ralph Lauren a while back, and it was right during the resurgence of Ralph Lauren- Mm

which has been amazing. Uh, but we carried the American stuff first, and then the whole point of even picking that collection up was I've always admired and loved Purple Label. That is their made in Italy product.

Yeah.

And that product is 10 times more beautiful than anything else in the collection, right?

Mm. And then you've got Double RL, which we recently became a Double RL account, which is all very vintage American inspired, classic workwear, Western wear

kind of stuff, and it's totally different from everything else- Mm ... but also very beautifully made, too, but made in America, so it has a little bit more of a fuller American fit vibe.

Mm.

Right? But I don't, I don't necessarily think that anything's better or worse. Like, there, there's American brands that are beautiful, but we just lean towards Italian because that, that was kinda where my passion started in the beginning, and there's a whole lot of product to find in Italy.

So if someone walks in, I mean, what percentage of your products are from Italy or-

90.

Okay.

90. We, we, we do a little bit of American with Ralph Lauren and Rag & Bone, um- Yeah. It's hard to come up with the others

Yeah. Um, one thing I wanted... I know we skipped over, and maybe it sounds like you just exited the fishing club. Will you talk a little bit about that, when you, when you guys bought it, what the vision f- was for it and when you exited it?

Yeah, man. Um-

And that's a personal passion, isn't it?

Yeah. Very, very personal passion, for sure. Um, when we bought that, it was during COVID. At the time when I was fly fishing a lot, my wife was a, she's a schoolteacher, and for the first time ever, Springdale School District gave teachers a fall break for, uh, COVID, right?

Mm. 'Cause they were all doing remote teaching. It was awful. Yeah. So they're like, "We're gonna give you a week off in October." And she was like, "Hey, let's... I'm getting a fall break. I've never had that. Let's get a cabin somewhere." I was like, "That's a great idea." Well, guess what, man? It was COVID, and everybody was looking for a cabin, right?

Mm.

I was like, "Well, we're a little late to the game. Two weeks out, I can get one in, like, nine months." It w- it was that far backed up to- Wow ... rent a cabin anywhere. And so me being me and whatever, I just go, "Man, if that's the

case, let's just buy one."

Yeah.

And so I started obsessing over where can I buy a cabin, where can I buy a cabin, you know.

I, I'm looking around. I'm in... I'm very traditionalist, so I want, I want a, uh, a log cabin. I don't want a house with wood siding on it, right? And so I start looking around to see if I can find something. I can't find anything. I thought, "I wonder if there's anything up by the dam where I fish." And so I searched that area and boom, this property pops up, 50 acres, and a, a beautiful, like, Aspen-esque log cabin, like big logs.

Like, you know, I was like, "This is too good to be true." So I go fishing that next day. Again, COVID, nobody's working. Mm. I go fishing that next day, and I, uh, I had never even really noticed it being there. I was like, "There it is. That's, that's crazy. That's for sale. It's right on the water." So one of my friends that I grew up

with, I call him up and I'm like, "So I just found this cabin for sale.

It's a really good price, and it's got, like, 48 acres with it Why don't you go in on this thing with me and we'll, we'll buy it together?" And he's like, "I'm in." So, um, we went up to look at it. Uh, it, it's, it's a whole long story, but eventually we, we brought in another partner and, um, just 'cause he wanted in on it, and we're, "Ah, come on, man.

More the merrier." Mm-hmm. "Whatever. Less we have to spend." And we bought this property, but when we went up there, we realized there was a second cabin next door- Mm ... on the same little piece of property, and there's only four acres attached to that one. But it was so close, it was weird.

Mm-hmm.

And we figured out that the reason nobody had ever bought the...

'Cause the big cabin was for sale for two years, as was the little se- cabin, but they were separately owned, and nobody wanted to buy this

big, beautiful cabin with this little, tiny cabin sitting next to it without being able to control who was on your property, because there's only one road down.

Yeah.

And the big, uh, big cabin owned it. So we were just like, "Ah, let's just buy 'em both." Yeah. So that's what we did. We, we made an offer on both of them together, and both accepted, and we, we ended up buying this whole piece of property. And I stayed out there the first w- We bought it in December of 2020.

Mm.

So during, during still COVID.

I stayed out there the first weekend. And of course, going back to the autism thing, uh, Luke i- is, uh, he's a little crazy sometimes, so when we're doing our thing, it's, it's uncomfortable to be around other people sometimes, just 'cause we want him to be able to be his crazy self, right? Yeah. And so I'm sitting there on this deck, and I'm looking at this cabin that's literally closer than the parking lot out there, and I'm like, "If we

Airbnb that thing, it's gonna be so popular, because it'll be cheap 'cause it's tiny, little, you know, 1,100 square foot cabin."

There's gonna be people there every single time we come. And I was like, "Ah, it's a nightmare." So, bright idea, why don't we turn the little cabin into the river version of this, only gear it towards fly fishing? So I, I pitched it to the other guys involved, and they're like, "Love it." So we ended up gutting this little cabin, putting lockers in, doing the whole thing, making it kind of this vibe, animal heads, the whole nine yards.

And, uh, it, it was, it was so cool and so much fun, such a passion project. We built a pavilion out there. We built this beautiful bridge across a ravine so that we could park in the state park area with... where it was paved and wouldn't have to come down our crazy road. And I j- I just fished my guts out with a bunch of great friends and took your dad out there a few times, and

a little bourbon and cigar, some of my best memories of being out there.

And, uh, man, my family got to use it for five years, and then, uh, just not too long ago, somebody was looking for a very specific type of property and made us an offer we couldn't refuse. And so That being said, I'm, I'm working with the new ownership on a partnership with the store to continue on with the Tailwater Club.

Oh, that'd be really cool.

Yeah, it'd be cool, 'cause they... Very cool guys that bought it, and they bought it for a specific use, and, um, I, I think with what they're doing with it... So what we didn't have was... So i- in, in the, in the five years that we owned it, my business went from COVID business, which was nothing, to...

2021 was like, wow, we're...

Like, this is a rebound that I did not expect, to holy crap, now we're doing more than I thought we would ever do in my wildest projections.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Like, our, our business has quadrupled, more than quadrupled in that amount of time. So my, my abi- all that... The, the reason I'm saying that is my ability to spend time out there and give that property- Yeah

the time that I had- It's not possible. It's impossible. Yeah.

Mm.

Like, I, I just, I, I have to be focused on this first. And so we, we didn't have the bandwidth to be able to make it as beautiful as we wanted to make it, and keep the grounds the way that we wanted it to be, and to put all that effort into what that property takes.

Mm. Because if you don't pay attention to it- ... the jungle will take it- ... fast. And, uh, I think the people that got it, they're going to be able to do all those things, and they have the financial wherewithal to be able to make it

beautiful and keep it upkept, and-

Mm ...

I mean, it was one of those things of every time I'd take people out there, they'd lose their minds over how beautiful the place was.

It, it's kinda like, it's kinda like buying a house, right? You, you walk through and you're like, "This place is amazing," and once you live there, you're like, "Oh, why did they do that?" You know?

I've gotta fix that

now. Uh, yeah. It's like, oh. It's like, oh, that handle's a little lower than- Why would they do that?

You know? Yeah. Like, who messed that... It's the same thing, right? Yeah. You take people out there and they're emotionally overwhelmed with the beauty of the property and how beautiful the houses are, and then the second time they come out, they're like, "Oh, man, this is, this place is so great." The third time they come out, they're like, "So you guys gonna do some landscaping or what?"

Yeah. You know? It, it's like that. And so it was just a lot of upkeep that, uh... I'm, I'm super happy with the situation.

Mm.

Of course, I got... You know, I mean, I got all my money back out of it, which was cool. Yeah, nice. Just, you know, that.

Talk about the store now, and just, like, the, the, you know, s- give

someone perspective on, like, the, just the scale you guys are at now, and, like, kinda what's, what's in, what's going on for the, what's ahead for the future.

But just, like, want, people, want people to know it's not, this is not just some, like- small little random retail store.

Right. Like- Right. Uh, man, yeah, dude. Uh, so we, even though we are a small shop, we've got a pretty good reputation, uh, nearly globally w- with the vendors and definitely- Mm ... across the country with other like-minded stores, and, uh, man, it, we, we've gotten a lot, a lot, a lot of publicity off of, uh, you know, everybody knows Coach Cal has been a great friend and cu- Yeah

customer, and, um, I've really honestly never asked him to wear our H pin.

He... A- and I'm, I'm never gonna put words in his mouth or anybody else's mouth, but I, my perception of why he appreciates and supports us so much is because of what we do with the team. Like, he, he was... I, I feel like he was very touched by what we've always done for the basketball team, right?

And it was pre-Cal being here. Mm. We s- we started that, but we give every player on the team a suit, and these young guys- Oh, nice ... this is their first suit they've ever owned, right? Yeah. And, um, I, I actually, I had the opportunity years and years and years ago with Rainwater's to do this when Ronnie Brewer was on the squad.

Oh, cool. So I, I gave Ronnie Brewer his first suit he ever owned, and, uh, he, he brought that up, and that's the only reason I know that, is he brought that up whenever we started doing this again.

Mm.

And, uh, I think it, I think it was touching to Cal that we invested in the players and gave them a suit to show up to Suits and Sneakers, and

to wear for other professional things that they need to have a-

A nice suit

a nice suit for. And it, it... Listen, it, it's great publicity for us. I'm not acting like it's totally out of benevolence. Like, it, it's a good advertising thing and... But when, again, it, this is, like, so full circle. I moved to Louisville, Kentucky, right?

Mm.

I'm living in Louisville, Kentucky, in 2016, 2017, and I meet this guy who is a University of Kentucky super fan, and he becomes one of my best friends, a guy named Mike Noble He looks at me one day and he's like, "Hey, would you go down to Lexington with me?

Uh, like, I'm super good friends with all the coaches down there, and, uh, I'd like for you to measure them and let's-- I'll try to get you some business with those guys." So I'm like, "Heck yeah." So I, on my day off, I, I go down to Lexington and I meet Chris Willard, who's the director of

basketball operations under Cal.

Like, he's his consigliere basically, and he's like the guy.

Yeah.

Right? He makes stuff happen. And then I meet Chen Coleman and Kenny Payne, 'cause Kenny was still on staff there before he went to Louisville. I, I, I met all these dudes.

Mm.

Fast forward, after meeting them, becoming super good friends with Chris specifically, and having a nice relationship with the other guys, you know, I'm, I'm back here, I opened this, I got the speakeasy downtown. Well, then when, when Kentucky would come to play, those dudes just randomly one night about six years ago hit me up, and they're like, "Donnie, we're, we're gonna be in Fayetteville staying with the graduate.

You wanna come to dinner with us?" And I was like, "Heck yeah, man. It'd be great to see you guys." Yeah. And so here I am sitting in Vetro with eight guys in blue. And everybody's looking at me like, "What are you doing over there, you sucker, you traitor?" You know? And, uh, 'cause, you know, I'm

in seeing clients- Yeah, yeah

and everything, and I'm hanging out with all these Kentucky coaches. We walk over to the speakeasy. We have a couple drinks, and they're like, "Hey, let's go up to your shop." It's like 10 o'clock at night. I'm like, "Deal." Yeah. So I load them all up in... Me and Seth load them all up in our cars, and we drive them up here at 11 o'clock at night, open the store, and they go nuts.

Like, they just, just shopping, and I'm like, "This is amazing." I got, I got... And, and candidly, Musselman and the staff, they didn't buy crap from me 'cause they didn't dress, right?

Yeah, they weren't wearing suits.

No, they weren't wearing suits. No, yeah. And he hated them, so it was like, even though I'm giving the team a suit, yeah, they didn't dress.

And I'm like, how is it that I'm selling a thousand times more clothes to the Kentucky basketball coaches than I am our own coaches here, right? And again, it was just back to that weird coincidence that I moved to Louisville, and I, I, I met these guys w- while I was in Kentucky.

Mm-hmm.

So every single time they played us and came here,

I'm sitting in Kentucky seats at our game having to not wear red, first of all, because I'm in the Kentucky coaches' seats.

Wow.

And I was like, I'm not gonna wear blue, but I, I won't, I won't, like, wear a lot of red to the game. And- Wear

white.

Yeah. And, uh, every time they came, we'd go have dinner, drinks, and come up, and they'd shop, and they'd always support me. It was great. And, and then one morning, I wake up, and it's all over social media, John Calipari's coming to Arkansas.

I was like, "That's not real."

Mm.

And then the more it went on in the day, I, I started texting all the guys there, and I was like, "Is this real?" And they're like, "Oh, dude, it's real." I said, "Are you guys coming?" And they're like We're waiting for an offer.

Yeah.

And then Cal, uh, as everybody knows, hired his entire freaking staff.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, they're all my buddies, so for the first six months they were in

town, me and my guys were the only people they knew. Like, we were the only people in town they knew, so they were calling us every night. And one, one night my wife finally looks at me, she goes, "Do these guys have wives?" And I'm like, "Yeah."

She goes, "Are they ever gonna come? Like, are they gonna have somebody else to hang out with?" I was like, "As long as they're asking, I'm going." Yeah. 'Cause I like the relationship, and they're my friends and all that. Absolutely. But I mean, what, what better of a program than U of A basketball, right? Mm-hmm. And then, um, I didn't know John that well back then.

I mean, we'd met and, but he wouldn't have known my name or anything. Mm-hmm. And, uh, of course, because of my relationship with Chris and, uh, Bruiser and Chin, all those guys, they're like, "Coach, you gotta... This is our guy." Mm-hmm. "He's doing the thing for the kids and whatever." And so all the way back, circle back around to that, the, the, I think the reason he has been so kind to wear our H pin

during every single game- Yeah

is, is just he appreciated what we did. And, uh, he's... He- Listen, dude, he is the sweetest, nicest human being ever. Mm-hmm. And as loyal of a human being as you'll ever meet.

Man.

And yeah, cool cat. And so back to your original question, I think that there's a lot of publicity around that. Man, I get text messages from other stores, from vendors and, you know, like when they s- you're watching some of the biggest games in, in basketball and there's Cal wearing our H pin.

Mm-hmm.

If you, if you go on Google and you Google what does Cal's H pin mean, it, it's, it's hilarious. It, it's, it's a little gratuitous and not what I put on there.

Yeah.

It's what AI is interpreting. So that's not part of the deal, but it, it's, it's pretty humbling and, uh, fun-

Wow ...

to, to see what Google

says about it.

Yeah.

And, and, and man, I'm selling coats all over the... I, I just-

There, there's a guy going to the Derby this weekend from Dallas that hit me up, and he's like, "Co- Coach was wearing during the Sweet 16 game, you got that?" I was like, "I can have it made." He's like, "Sold."

Hmm.

And done deal. Yeah.

And maybe that's part of the perception, this isn't a crazy big shop or anything.

I think when Cameron's asking scale- Yeah ... I mean, how much of your business happens not here? You say you're traveling- Yeah ... to Kansas City to go do... I mean-

Yeah ... how

much of your business-

A lot. Like, I, I've got, you know... Again, we're, we're in an area where Walmart prevails, and that's kind of a transient thing, and we, we end up creating relationships with, you know, great example, um, Don Frison.

When, when Don was here, he's the COO of Sam's Club, great friend, great client. He's always shopped with me. He ends up leaving, becomes the COO of Lowe's. I'm s- you know, doing video calls with Don and sending him

stuff- Hmm ... and we tailor it and know his measurements and all that, and shoot it to him. Been great.

He's, he retired from Lowe's, and, uh, unfortunately, a mutual friend of ours passed away not too long ago, and he was in town for the funeral and just popped in. Hmm.

Wow.

Uh, bought a bunch of stuff then and, you know-

Hmm ...

ordered some custom things. So I've got guys like that that I kind of deal with remotely, and then I've got guys like, uh, last week I was in Las Cruces seeing a client who used to be a surgeon here in town and shopped with me quite a bit, and still, I mean, it's Las Cruces, so there's no place for him to shop.

Hmm.

Uh, but went down there to see him, hang out a couple days and do some significant things, and came home. The next day, I had to run up to Kansas City 'cause banking client of mine up there that I met years ago, still loyal to me. And again, it's just relationships, man, so our business has become... I mean, I've got, I've got

guys all over the place, Florida, New York, um, LA.

Uh, it's Idaho, uh, which that one was really fun during, during COVID. My guy that used to be on the Starbucks team here, he had moved to Idaho to get out of Seattle. He left Starbucks and went to a vendor, and he calls me and he's like, "Donny, I need some clothes." And I was like... And I thought he was still in Seattle at the time.

I was like, "Just go to Mario's." Like, "What, why are you calling? Like, I'm, I'm more than happy to help you, but-" Yeah. "... you have such access there." He goes, "No, no, no. I moved, I moved out of Seattle. I couldn't, couldn't stand it during COVID." So I'm... He goes, "I'm in Boise, Idaho." I go I hear there's great fishing there.

Yeah. And so I was like, "I'll come see you." He goes, "You don't have to do that." I was like, "No, no, no, I should. I should." Yeah, I'll be up there. And so I, I went up to go see him and shipped a bunch of clothes up. We did the fitting at his country club, and then I took off for a couple days up to catch him to go fly fishing for

a few days.

Well, now, and

now I'm just curious now with all the money that's moving into Northwest Arkansas and, and just- It's

crazy ...

how, how many of y- your clients would you say are, percent are from Arkansas versus, um, versus not?

20.

Yeah.

It's low.

Yeah.

It's low. It's wild. Anytime, like, I, I meet somebody who's actually from here, okay, that I haven't already known- Mm-hmm

that's, that's what's shocking is if I haven't known them and they're from here. Um, but man, yeah, we... Dude, it's, it's, it's wild. It's, um... And it's not all for vendors or Walmart or what... Some people are just moving here for the mountain biking.

Yeah.

It's crazy. I had a guy standing here in the club not too long ago.

I was like, "Yeah, so where are you from?" And he's like, "Ah, I moved here from Denver." I was like, "Oh, okay. Walmart?" "No."

I was like, "

Tyson, JB Hunt, vendor, whatever?" He's like, "No, dude, I can do my job from anywhere." Yeah. He goes, "Uh, I came here for the mountain biking." I was like,

"From Denver?" You know? And then he goes on.

He's like, "Hey, listen, yeah, I get it. It's Denver. It's world-class. It's..." He said, "But listen, the trails here are world-class, first of all." He said, "Second of all, for me to go mountain biking in Denver, I got to get dressed, go get my bike, load it up on my truck, drive out 45 minutes, get to a trailhead-" Mm-hmm.

ride, get back to the trailhead, load up, go clean my bike, you know, get back to the hou-" He said, "It's..." He said, "In Bentonville, Arkansas, I get on my bike in my house, and I'm on a trail in three minutes."

Yeah.

I was like, "That's amazing."

And there's a trail left opening up in a month. Um-

Yeah. That's great. So yeah, they...

Like, the, the many reasons to come to Northwest Arkansas now is... Dude, I was driving home from Kansas City listening to Joe Rogan Podcast. He had this cat that's running for mayor of LA. Mm.

And, you know what I mean, I was interested because I'm from Los Angeles, and, you know, we hear all the stuff going on in LA, and I've got family there, so it affects them.

And so I'm listening to this guy, and he grew up in Paci- Pacific Palisades that just burned down, you know. Mm-hmm. And they're talking about all that, and at, uh, somewhere in the interview, I... Absolutely, go look it up. Somewhere in the interview, Joe looks at him and goes, "So, so what happens if you don't win?"

He goes "Man, if I don't win, I guess I'm gonna join the rest of my friends and move to Bentonville, Arkansas." I was like, "F- what?" This dude that's running for mayor- Yeah ... of Los Angeles tells Joe Rogan, "If I don't win, I'm gonna join the rest of my friends and move to Bentonville, Arkansas."

That's pretty crazy.

That's crazy. That, that- That's way crazy ... just shows what's happening here.

Yeah.

And so the scale of our business now, like I said, we've grown four times. We, we are just jammed to the gills because the amount of business we're

doing requires specific amount of inventory-

Yep ...

to perpetuate that business and continue to...

I mean, we, we, we've-- it, cat's kinda out of the bag, and it's never been a secret by any means. You know, you just don't wanna, until you sign leases, you don't wanna go around telling everybody everything you're doing. Mm-hmm. We were, we were in the process of buying property to build a building, and that fell through because, um, we found out later on there was a gas line that we couldn't move in the property that would've inhibited us from being able to build the building.

So we scrapped that idea and went back to the drawing board, and I was still trying to bu- buy a building or buy a property to build a building within this area. And then, uh, very fortunately, uh, not too long ago, uh, I got word that, um vendor was vacating their space right here in the parking lot, and so the old Iowa Metro building- Mm

is about 8,000 square feet, and with

what we're doing here, we're growing from 2,500 square feet to 8,000, and we're just gonna expand everything, right? That's

amazing.

And, uh, we need the space so badly, both for our tailor shop- Mm-hmm ... um, we've, we've, we've got our seamstress doing the work of five times what she used to do.

Yeah.

And so we- we're hiring another tailor. Um, we're, we... You know, right now our timing is, you know, we, we've gotta manage that really well because we're just selling so much stuff- Mm ... that it's overwhelming, and we don't have enough room to put everything that... It... Dude, it- everything's a problem, and it's all a good problem.

All of it.

Wow.

Yeah. And so we don't have space for our inventory on the sales floor. We don't have space for the tailor shop. We don't have space for storage. Um, and so that will both be a much more prominent location, being right on the roundabout,

and give us a, you know, 2.0 interpretation of what we're doing here.

We'll keep a very similar vibe, 'cause everybody loves the vibe of this store and the feel. Um, and then we'll also expand on the club aspect.

Well, location's amazing. I mean, that is like lights out, lights out- And you know this ... locationally pinnacle, yeah.

Yeah. I mean-

From a real estate guy, the... Do you have a, like, hopes on timing, what that looks like for y'all?

Fall.

Okay.

Yeah. I think mid- Soon ... mid-fall. Wow. Yeah. It would be... And it... Listen, it, it could be January. Who knows?

Yeah.

I'm-

We're,

we're not struggling to do business. It, it'll just be so much more comfortable for us and for our clientele and for e- for everything-

Mm ...

once we get in there. And, uh, right now we're going through the design, back and forth with the design phase with, Goddard Design Group is on board doing that again, 'cause they z- I mean, Chris is a mad scientist.

Yeah. He... Everything he did here, I was like, "Oh my God, I never thought of

that." So, you know, when it came time, we were negotiating the, the lease and the terms and all that, and, um, you know, I wasn't comfortable making a decision like hiring Chris without my partner, and I was just waiting for him. Finally, he was like, "Yeah, we gotta get Chris involved," and like, "We need his thumbprint on it because everything he does is so good."

Mm.

And so we got him. So saw the, saw the initial design plans yesterday that, uh, now we're gonna submit that back to the builder and the architects and finalize everything. So super exciting. Dang. After what I saw yesterday, it's, you know... And, and then, like ramping up the H Club for that location will be-

Mm-hmm

even better. You know, y- we do a lot of events down in Fayetteville, but we don't have the room to do in this room, and so we'll, we'll bring a lot of that up here, too, so.

Pellicle needs it.

P- I mean, have a spot- Pellicle's hungry for it ... that's after hours and jazz

nights and comedy nights and- Oh, yeah

other unique things that we'll come up with and make it a part of. You know, for us, those events is just giving our clientele and other people a place to wear the clothes that we sell, right? It's, it's an am- Mm ... it's creating a lifestyle environment, and- Yeah ... I think that's the coolest part of the whole thing.

People won't leave. Not a chance. Um, do you have anything else? I was gonna get us wrapped up here. The... So we ask two questions at the end of every episode. One, why build a business in Northwest Arkansas?

Because I think there's more opportunity here than almost any place in America. Like, it, it's shocking.

It's just like the Joe Rogan thing.

Mm.

When, when people like that are mentioning Bentonville, Arkansas, with the incubators for technology, for retail, for real estate, for... Yeah, I mean, there's- Mm ... so much happening here. The, the growth. What are, what are the numbers now?

40 a day. Yeah.

40 a

day.

Yeah. Net 40

a day coming in.

And that's, that's, that's real, too. That's not- Yeah ... like some...

That's the data. You know, it could be higher now, but that's the real- Yeah ... data, like now.

Yeah.

So.

And so-

Um ...

that's why.

Yeah. Um, and then

how- And quality people, too. The, like...

People care about other people. People care about where they live.

Yep.

Um, care about building a business. Um, and then for you, h- how do you define success?

Man, I, I used to define success with how, I mean, obviously how much money I was making and how much, you know... That's how we keep score, is through, through money. That's, those are the points. But now, man, uh, uh, not to be cheesy, but for me, success hit when I could take my family to Italy for a month and not have to worry about whether or not this store was gonna be here when I got

back, right?

Mm-hmm. And so just having a lifestyle that, um, is not 100% dependent on me being in this building 24 hours a day-

Mm-hmm ...

that, that's when success hit.

Wow.

And having guys that I'm confident in leaving the store with, and they're doing better than me at most, most cases. Mm-hmm. That's, that's really fun. And, and again, going back to the money issue of being able to afford to take those dudes with me to Italy and-

Mm

take them with me to... You know, we, we always go out and have a big celebratory dinner when we have a great month, and- Mm ... I, I owe them a big one this time.

Good.

Yeah.

And th- I love the staff every time I come in.

Um- They're the best, man.

They are.

Mm.

The... I think one thing, I don't know if you, I don't think you initially touched on it in the beginning, but when you were talking about them,

the...

I would say this is the first... Yeah, this is, you know, one of the first, like, I would say, nicer high-end clothing spots I remember going to, um, kinda out of college. And, and, uh, and it can be overwhelming when you've-

It's intimidating ...

you know, it- it's- It's intimidating ... you don't know what you don't know, and, and it's just, just so approachable.

And then, like, it, I mean, kinda like your first mentor, you said it was, like, magnetic. The... Yeah, there's a, uh, it's approachable and it's magnetic. Okay, I don't have to, like... I mean, it's like going to a coffee shop for the first time. What's a latte? I don't know. You know? And it's like the, but until you- Yeah

but, but, like, "Hey," like, "you know, it's okay if you can't afford anything here yet, or if you can't, but, like, just come and hang out, and, like, just be- be you." Yeah, just have

fun with us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, so.

And that's- Yeah ... that's, that's what we love the most, is when, when we can get somebody to come hang out, even if they can't afford something or don't want anything.

Yeah.

Like-

Or buy everything.

I, I had these... I, and I know we're wrapping it up,

but to that point, I had these two guys come in about a year ago, and they were rough looking. I mean, like, rough looking.

Mm.

Weren't dressed like anything. And they came in for haircuts, and I just- I just decided I was gonna make these two dudes my new best friends.

Mm.

Right? And I bring them back, and I'm showing them around, I'm offering them drinks, I'm telling them the story, and they were just like, "Dude, you are the nicest human being I've ever met." And I was like, "Man, I just love what I do, and I love, like, sharing it with other people and getting them to come and experience."

And they're like, "This is, this is the coolest..." You know, I was like, "So, so what do you guys do?" And they're like, "Oh, we're-- live in Seattle," and he lives in wherever, and, "We're just in town hanging out for this and that." And I was like, "Oh, okay. So what do you do?" This guy, one of them was a Michelin star chef in Seattle, and the other one

is director of food operations, who used to be a chef for, like Some business that does business with Tyson.

Yeah.

And I was like... And they go, "Dude, when we come back to town, we're coming back here." And again, it was just so much fun.

That's

cool. Like, two guy- And they were tatted up and just dressed like whatever, and n- Yeah ... not the usual suspect that you would think a store like ours would put the time and effort into.

But I, like I said, I was just like, "You know what? These suckers are not my client, but I'm gonna make them my best friend."

Yeah.

And when they left, they were my best friend.

Man.

And that's what we love to do.

It's real.

Yep.

It's awesome. Uh, well, one of the things we do at the end of every episode is we kind of summarize and highlight the big three things that we learned today, and then I think as our listeners learn- Cool

building businesses and being entrepreneurs, working in a business, just things that they can apply, um, in the business world. And I think the first one that's unique, we've had a variety of different founders, but you've really, you've had

partnerships throughout your, sounds like most of your, uh, entrepreneurial journey.

Like, um, from the very beginning, buying into Bowman's, um, and then, you know, coming back here after Louisville- Yeah ... um, and entering a partnership again. I think you have a really unique perspective on partnerships, and I think what I learned and what we appreciate is your candor around, "Hey, they didn't work.

Here's maybe some of the reasons why they didn't work, and here's why they're working now." Um- Yeah ... and so I think just that word partnership I think would highlight and summarize, um, it ta- It's hard to have a partnership and to be a partner to other people. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it takes a lot of humility from every party involved.

So super unique. Um, one of the other words I think I'd use to describe this conversation is just creative. You are very creative. Um-

Sure ...

and to be an entrepreneur, uh, and be creative, it's, it's a really cool combination. I think you talking through these lockers and

backing into paying your rent on this building- Right

I mean, that's creative.

Yeah.

Uh, the H Club is creative. Thank you. You look at the space, like, it's creative. Um, and if you can build a business and be creative, those are two things that are hard to do at the same time. And, uh- It's

a sneak attack, man.

Yeah, yeah. So creative's definitely a word I would use- Yeah

to describe you. Um- And then the last one I think would, would be the word unconventional. Um, and some of the things even walking in here, I wanted to go see the store 'cause I- I'm not a clothes guy. I mean, I've had these pants for eight years, you know? Um.

We can fix that.

Yeah. Uh, my wife's tried. But, uh, but the, the products that you offer are different.

It, it, the- Yeah ... and you use the word luxury a lot. Like, it ... When you brought these products to Northwest Arkansas, they were new to the market. Yeah,

yeah.

Um, that's unconventional. That's doing business in an unconventional way.

Um, and just the store itself, very unique, the paintings everywhere. I mean, it's just a very unique

The, the lockers, they could've just been lockers. They have faces all over them. Right. It's just, it's unconventional. Um, so I think all those things paired together paint a really clear picture of why you've been successful and why the business has grown, and we're thankful to learn from that, and I think, uh, our listeners are, too.

So Donny, thank you so much for your time.

No, thanks for letting me ramble. Everyone come to Hubbard's. Please. We'll show you around.

Thank you for listening to this episode of NWA Founders, where we sit down with founders, owners, and builders driving growth here in Northwest Arkansas. For recommendations or to connect with us, reach out at nwafounders@gmail.com.

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